Newbie questions

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Whiteboyz79
Hey guys great site. I just did a cycle of oral dbol, and now I am gearing up to do a cycle of test. cypionate. I've never injected before and I'd like to know what guage I should use, whether Nolvadex and Proviron are necessary, and any other procedures I should know about for injections. i.e. air bubbles? Thanks in advance guys!  

21 Oct 2004 03:41

shortz
Nolva is always necessary. This is used for helping to stop certain side effects and can be used for post cycle therapy.

Injecting is IM, so you should get most of the bubbles out, but it's not a life or death thing.

There is alot to the world of steroids. Do lots of research before you dive in. You won't regret the time it takes to do it. There is so much to learn.  

21 Oct 2004 05:49
regino007
Like Shortz said,read and educate yourself.In time you will learn that a dbol only term is not considered a cycle.There is lots to learn my friend.Use the search engine on here and look these things up then come back and ask questions.Good luck and welcome to BBF.  

21 Oct 2004 16:28
Whiteboyz79
I wasn't aware that dbol only wasn't considered a cycle. I've been researching the all the steroid topics, believe me, my boy just gave me this stuff and wanted me to start juicing it right away. I have a little knowledge of the human body and knew it's not that easy. I know it probably sounds funny to you guys that I'm not stacking anything with the cyp. but I just want to kind of ease my way in if that's possible (not like cyp. is a beginners product). I knew air bubbles aren't good, but as long as I get most of them out it shouldn't matter? I also read in another forum that needles should be changed after puncturing the rubber because they dull? Is this true or is it all just over kill? Thanks again by the way, I appreciate all your knowledge!!  

21 Oct 2004 16:50
A.B
Research!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

21 Oct 2004 17:24
shortz
Always, always always change your needles between everything you do with them. This will help prevent infection, plus, needles dull with every use too. Needles are pretty cheap bro, don't chance it.

Cyp only is a good cycle. It's not too many injections, will give you good gains and gives you a chance to see how you respond to test.  

21 Oct 2004 18:31
Whiteboyz79
thanks shortz and A.B.! What I meant about changing pins is that some people recommended that I change them in between simply drawing the cyp. out and immediate injection. I obviously know to change pins between shots but should I change in between the vial and the injection? Also, are those anabolic websites on the main forum page legit?  

21 Oct 2004 20:52
shortz
We have no fricken clue where in the hell the anabolic sites on the main page come from . When you are signed in, I think they disappear.

Again, CHANGE THE NEEDLES WITH EVERYTHING YOU DO WITH THEM!!! That includes drawing from the vial. If you drop it on the floor, touch is on anything. The only exeption is if you need to draw up from multiple vials. In that case, you use one needle to draw up rom all vials, but make sure you alcohol swab the tops of the vials, then change needles when ready to inject.  

21 Oct 2004 20:58
regino007
I see those web sites you're talking about bro.I wouldn't order from them but thats my opinion only.
Yes,change your pins as you draw and inj.Most ppl will say that a dbol only is not a cycle because you get mostly water gains and then loose most of it when you get done.Now test will get some water but also aid in actually building muscle under exteme protein enviroment and resitance training.  

21 Oct 2004 22:36
serious newbie
Look at durabolins beginner cycles. Don't think of any single product as a standalone cycle. They all have differing properties. For example DECA and Equipose help the body build muscle slowly, but improve the quality. Test esters will build mass and strength faster, but you may lose most of those gains after the cycle. Some quick points.

For a beginner there is no better base cycle than EQ + test.

If you use a long acting ester like Cyp or Ena you can use a dbol to get things started off faster. Not necessary IMO.

Make sure you have Nolva and Clomid ready for the PCT. Learn the basics of PCT before you even get started. This includes learning why HCG is important during the cycle.

Go out and find out WHY EQ + test is considered one of the best bases for a cycle. Find out why HCG is good. Find out why PCT is probably the most important thing you do in the cycle. Any of durabolins beginner cycles would work and you could get started on them now. I would really recommend finding out why they work as well.  

21 Oct 2004 22:55
serious newbie
Look at durabolins beginner cycles. Don't think of any single product as a standalone cycle. They all have differing properties. For example DECA and Equipose help the body build muscle slowly, but improve the quality. Test esters will build mass and strength faster, but you may lose most of those gains after the cycle. Some quick points.

For a beginner there is no better base cycle than EQ + test.

If you use a long acting ester like Cyp or Ena you can use a dbol to get things started off faster. Not necessary IMO.

Make sure you have Nolva and Clomid ready for the PCT. Learn the basics of PCT before you even get started. This includes learning why HCG is important during the cycle.

Go out and find out WHY EQ + test is considered one of the best bases for a cycle. Find out why HCG is good. Find out why PCT is probably the most important thing you do in the cycle. Any of durabolins beginner cycles would work and you could get started on them now. I would really recommend finding out why they work as well. You will learn about Dianabol, tren, and all of the other things out there that have their own effects.

And change needles after drawing. The last thing you should do before sticking a needle deep into your body right after rubbing alcohol over the injection site is pulling that plastic cover off said needle that hasn't touched ANYTHING. It hurts enough as is, no need for an infection.  

21 Oct 2004 23:07
Whiteboyz79
Will do guys, thanks again!

edit: Read up on HCG. But still don't know what PCT is? I'm guessing Post Cycle......something. I've gathered from the reading that it's when you guys "recover" if you will your natural testosterone levels and prevent aromatising (sp) of left over test? Am I close? Bear with me here guys I'm new to all this but I'm retaining everything I read.  

21 Oct 2004 23:48
regino007
Good post SN.
And bro you are learning.PCT=PostCycleTherapy.
Aromatising of any extra test that your body is trying to counter by producing more estrogen.Its a natural balance within us.Like a living machine.  

22 Oct 2004 00:43
Whiteboyz79
Ok guys did sh!t loads of research. Still questioning one subject though: From my readings I can't get a definite time frame of when to start Nolva/Clomid? I've read that it should be started 4-5 weeks into a 10 week, and I've also read it should be started just before the last shot. I know the steroid type has a direct effect on when to start, and I'm using Cyp. So my question is basically when should I begin to take it? Also what time frame should I begin using HCG?  

11 Nov 2004 19:27
shortz
Hcg takes some time to kick in. It can be used during the cycle to prevent shut down and should be used for a minimum of 8 weeks. 500iu 2-3 times per week.

For cyp, PCT should be started with clomid or nolva about 3 weeks after the last shot. These two drugs will not start working to kick the testicles back until after you are done the test or what ever else you are taking.  

11 Nov 2004 20:46
Whiteboyz79
[QUOTE=shortz]Hcg takes some time to kick in. It can be used during the cycle to prevent shut down and should be used for a minimum of 8 weeks. 500iu 2-3 times per week.

For cyp, PCT should be started with clomid or nolva about 3 weeks after the last shot. These two drugs will not start working to kick the testicles back until after you are done the test or what ever else you are taking.[/QUOTE]

Thanks shortz. Can the HCG be used directly through the whole 10 weeks and after into the PCT? Also, what is the minimum time the Nolva should be used?  

12 Nov 2004 01:34
jcvaughn26
Well for the HCG yes you can use it through out the cycle. 250ius x2 a week through out. I am doing that with my next cycle never tried it this way but it is recommended by a HRT doctor, Swales. For the nolva as a PCT I would recommend 2wks minimum preferably longer. Test is a pretty common first "real" cycle. Here's a site for diferent places to inject.... http://spotinjections.com/  

14 Nov 2004 20:46
jcvaughn26
Also for injections read this..... (I have to break this up into to post)

Injections 101

Syringe/Needle/Injection FAQ



For many of you, this is common knowledge, but I'm sure that some of you still have a few questions about this subject. If you are new to steroids, this FAQ should answer your injection questions. We will start from the very beginning.......

1cc = 1ml

Gauge: The smaller the gauge, the thicker the needle. An 18g is much thicker than a 22g.

Length: Generally 1.5" or 1" for our purposes.

And yes, you can mix water and oil-based steroids in the same syringe.

now we can proceed.......

What is an intramuscular (IM) injection?
A technique to deliver a medication into muscle tissue for it's eventual absorption into the systemic circulation. Steroids, both oil and water-based, are administered this way.


What is a subcutaneous (sub-q) injection?
A technique to deliver a medication into the soft tissue (fat) immediately underlying the skin. Insulin, HCG, and HGH are typically administered this way.


What is aspiration?
To aspirate is to withdraw fluid with a syringe. More specifically, after inserting the needle, pulling back on the plunger of the syringe for a few seconds to see if the needle is in a blood vessel. Rarely, this will be the case and a bit of blood will fill the syringe. If this happens the needle should be removed, replaced with a new one, and another injection site should be used. And yes, if there is a little blood in your syringe, it is ok to inject it along with your steroid once you have found a different spot..........it's your own blood isn't it?

When aspirating, nothing should come back into the syringe if you are in the right spot. Pulling back on the plunger will create a vacuum in your syringe. The oil cannot expand to fill that space, but any air bubbles in your syringe will. You may notice the tiny bubbles getting bigger and bigger as you pull back. They will return to normal size as you release the plunger. If the air bubbles do not disappear upon releasing the plunger, you have an air leak most likely caused by the needle not being screwed onto the syringe tightly enough, although on very rare occassions, the syringe or needle itself can be defective. Either way, purge the air bubbles out, put a new needle on and try it again.


Do I really need to aspirate?
Those who inject without aspirating are taking unnecessary chances. Sweating, nausea, dizziness, severe coughing, breathing difficulties, anaphylactic shock, coma or death can all result from not aspirating. Most of the time, steroid users experience dizziness and coughing fits when they inject into a blood vessel. But you need to be aware of the dangers of neglecting this simple technique that should take about 3-5 seconds of your time.


What exactly is an abscess?
Abscesses occur when an area of tissue becomes infected and the body is able to "wall off" the infection and keep it from spreading. White blood cells migrate through the walls of the blood vessels into the area of the infection and collect within the damaged tissue. During this process, pus forms (an accumulation of fluid, living and dead white blood cells, dead tissue, and bacteria or other foreign invaders or materials).

Abscesses can form in almost every part of the body and may be caused by bacteria, parasites, or foreign materials. Most of the time, it is caused by unsanitary injection techniques. On very rare occassions, it can be caused by foreign particles your gear (a greater chance of this occurs when using/making a homebrew). The abscesses that we are concerned about are usually reddish, raised, and painful.


How do they treat an abscess?
Antibiotics are often given to aid the cure of an abscess but the real cure is generally surgical. A doctor wouud open the thing up and allow the pus to drain, then the body would take care of the infection. Some have even gone so far as to "drain" their own abscesses by inserting a needle/syringe into the abscessed area and drawing out the accumulated pus, although this is not recommended.


Can I reuse the same needle?
Yes, but only if you are an idiot or cannot obtain anymore needles. There really is no need to explain why you shouldn't re-use a needle. Common sense should kick in here, but the bottom line of re-using needles is an INCREASED CHANCE OF INFECTION. If you have trouble obtaining needles in your area, try finding a different way of getting them. The hassle of finding a source is negligible compared to the hassle of the abscess in your ass that would most-likely require a doctor and a scalpel. There are methods to "sterilize" a needle for re-use, but I will not delve into them. If you are still considering re-using a needle, re-read the above two questions.


Can I inject with the same needle I draw with?
Yes, but it is preferrable to switch the needle out with a new one. The needle dulls significantly when pushed into the rubber stopper of your vial or scraped along the bottom of your amp. You may not notice the difference if you inject into your glute, but try injecting into an area that has more nerve endings such as a delt or bicep and you will notice immediately.


Does it matter if I push the needle in fast or slow?
I would recommend slowly, but this is personal preference. A lot of people will tell you to jab the needle in quickly. These people usually stop that practice after the first time they hit a nerve going in at full speed (usually quad shots). By going in slowly, you'll have more time to react if you hit a nerve.


Where exactly do I inject?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
www.spotinjections.com


What gauge needles should I use?
for drawing - 20g, 21g

18g needles are too big and they will eat up your stoppers in a hurry. A bigger hole means an increased chance of letting some little nasties into your sterile vial. Sometimes, the 18g will take out little chunks of rubber that fall nicely into your vial. That is not something you want. Imagine injecting that tiny piece of rubber into your muscle. I'll bet the doctor would have lots of fun digging into your rmuscle trying to find it and mutilating your muscle in the process.....

for injecting - 22g, 23g, 25g - for oil-based steroids, 27g, 29g - for insulin, HCG, HGH, and some water-based steroids. 21g-25g for some lower quality types of winny or suspension, higher quality versions can use a smaller needle generally.

22g and 23g are fine for glutes and quads. 25g is preferred for the smaller muscles such as delts, biceps, triceps, etc.


What length needles should I use?
Most people can get by with a 1" needle, but if you have a higher percentage of bodyfat or are just plain big you should use a 1.5" needle to insure that you get deep into the muscle. You should only use a 1.5" needle for glutes, or if you have huge quads. For smaller muscle groups, 1" is the most common, although some people like to use a 5/8".


How many ccs can I shoot in one place?
It depends on how big you are. A general guideline is 1cc for delts, 2cc for quads, and up to 3ccs for glutes. Some do more, some do less......it all depends. After a cycle or two, you will know what your body can handle. If you are injecting into other muscles such as biceps, triceps, or calves, it's best to start off with a small volume and work your way up.


Can I pre-load my syringes?
If at all possible, leave it in the vial or amp. If you need to pre-load, just keep in mind that the syringe must be stored safely. Nothing sucks more than having the plunger pushed in accidentally and losing some of your gear.


Which is the best brand of needle?
Terumo, B-D, and Monoject are the primary manufacturers of needles/syringes. Both Terumo and B-D have an ultra-thin wall design (the wall of the needle is thinner, so more fluid can pass through the same gauge of needle). From personal experience as well as opinions from many other steroid users, Terumo seems to be the sharpest.  

14 Nov 2004 20:47
jcvaughn26
Common "FREAK OUTS"

I can't get all the tiny air bubbles out of my syringe....
As long as you tap it and get most of the air out, you will be fine. A little air intramusculary won't hurt you. According to the USH2 by Dan Ducaine, it supposedly takes about 10ccs of air injected into a blood vessel to kill you. I wonder how the hell they figured that one out.

I saw blood in the syringe after I pulled out....
You passed through a blood vessel and a little bit of blood entered the syringe on the way out. No biggie.

I pulled the needle out and blood dripped/squirted out....
You passed through a blood vessel. Apply a little pressure with your alcohol swab. You'll live.

I pulled the needle out and oil was dribbling out....
You injected too much in one place or you didn't inject deep enough. No biggie. Try injecting slower or leaving the needle in you for 30 seconds after you have injected it all. This should give the oil some time to dissipate so very little, if any, should dribble out.

I injected into my quad, and my leg was twitching....
You grazed a nerve. Usually it's a good idea to pull out and try another spot.

I don't think I injected deep enough....
If you think you injected into a layer of fat, don't worry. It will just take longer for the steroid to dissipate than it would if you had injected into the muscle. Eventually it will be absorbed. Don't let anyone tell you that you wasted it because that is not true.

I want to mix two different steroids and combine them into one syringe. How do I do this?
Let's say you want 1cc of deca and 1cc of test. First, draw 1cc of air and inject into your vial of deca. Withdraw 1cc of deca and pull the needle out. With the needle pointing up, draw 1cc of air into your syringe (your plunger will be at the 2cc mark - 1cc of deca in it and 1cc of air you just drew into it). With the needle pointing up, inject that 1cc of air into your vial of test. Withdraw 1cc of test. You now have 1cc of deca and 1cc of test in the same syringe. Don't forget to change the needle before you inject.

Instructions for first-timers.....

Step 1
Wash your hands.
Step 2
Wipe the top of the vial of medication for injection with an alcohol swab.
Step 3
Remove the needle guard from the needle and syringe, saving the needle guard. Be sure you are using a proper syringe for intramuscular injections. Pull back on the syringe plunger to draw up an amount of air equal to the amount of medication that your doctor has prescribed for injection. For example, if you want to inject 2ccs of oil, then pull back 2ccs of air.
Step 4
Holding the vial of medication in an upright position, insert the needle straight through the center of the rubber stopper in the vial. Then push the plunger to discharge all the air into the vial.
Step 5
With the needle in the vial, turn the vial upside down and hold it in one hand. The tip of the needle should be in the solution. Using your free hand, pull the plunger back in a slow, continuous motion until you have drawn into the syringe the amount of medication that your doctor has prescribed.
Step 6
If air bubbles have formed in the syringe, dislodge them by gently tapping the syringe with your free hand while continuing to hold the syringe and vial in the inverted position. Bubbles should rise to the top of the syringe, and then you can push them back into the vial by moving the plunger. Double check to make sure you have the correct amount of medication in the syringe. If necessary, draw more solution into the syringe.
Step 7
Remove the needle from the vial. With the needle pointing upwards, pull back on the plunger until all oil from the needle has been pulled back into the syringe. Unscrew needle from syringe and replace with a brand new, preferrably smaller needle. Replace needle guard.
Step 8
Prepare the injection site by cleaning the area with an alcohol swab. To do this start at the center, apply pressure, and cleanse in a circular motion working outward. Do not retrace your steps.
Step 9
Wait a few seconds until the alcohol has dried. This reduces the sting. Remove the needle guard from the needle and syringe. With the needle pointing upwards, tap the syringe to dislodge the air bubbles and push the air out of the needle until you see a tiny drop of oil start to form at the tip. Hold the syringe as you would a pencil.
Step 10
Holding the syringe at a right angle (perpendicular) to the prepared injection site and insert the needle.
Step 11
When the needle is in place, slowly pull back on the plunger to see if any blood flows into the syringe. If some blood does enter the syringe (a rare occurrence), remove the needle, replace the needle with a new one, find another area to inject. Repeat Step 8.
Step 12
If no blood enters the syringe, slowly inject the medication by gently pushing the plunger until the syringe is empty.
Step 13
Remove the needle quickly. Apply pressure to the injection site with your alcohol swab. You're done. Massage the area. Now go do the most important parts - eat, train, and rest!  

14 Nov 2004 20:48
Whiteboyz79
awesome posts jcvaughn26!! Definitely gonna read this one more than once. Thanks again!!  

15 Nov 2004 05:41
sa12
Bear in mind that you will be nervous the first time you come to inject as most of us were our first time...

If you must get someone who knows what they are doing to do it for you the first time so you get used to the felling, and if you have any concerns dont be afraid to post them up on the forums to get advice. We are all very helpful Smile  

15 Nov 2004 18:59
Whiteboyz79
:thumbs: Ok guys thanks for all the positive feedback here, it's been utilized by myself and my friends. Another question though, can I mix test. cyp. and HCG in the same injection? And is there a conversion from iu's to cc's? Thanks in advance!!  

17 Nov 2004 01:01
shortz
You can mix Hcg and test. It's really not a big deal. Don't let anyone tell you other wise. You might have people tell you that Hcg has to be Subcu, which is in the fat, but IM is just as good.  

17 Nov 2004 04:36
jcvaughn26
I personally like sub-q. I wish all my shots were like that takes me about 2 seconds and not even a pinch with the slin needle. :D  

17 Nov 2004 06:29
Whiteboyz79
Hey guys got another question. Finally got all my stuff together to start this cycle. The HCG I have is liquid (oil) and the other amp is powder. what is the correct way to go about mixing the two before injection?  

15 Dec 2004 03:23
jcvaughn26
okay that's not oil. It's water, the way is to take the liquid draw it all up and slowly put the water in the other amp. Run the water down the side rather then hitting it directly, after all the water is in swirl the amp by moving your hand in a circular motion. Now I like preloading my slin pins. So fill them to whatever you want I usually fill them to 500ius. After you do that make sure you keep them refrigerated.

I hope you did plenty of research, because no offense but those first post were scary that you would be cycling.  

15 Dec 2004 07:52
Whiteboyz79
Yeah if you look at the dates of my first posts they were a while ago, and in between I've done nothing but research, research, research. I just didn't anticipate the HCG coming in two different forms, I assumed it would come ready to go in either vials or amps. Thanks for your info man, very appreciated. Another question-the HCG is in 5000iu amps, I plan on taking only 500iu's a week, if I preload some pins how long are they good for?  

15 Dec 2004 23:22
shortz
It's all good bro. When I first got Hcg, I too did not expect to get a solution and powder. Just be careful mixing the stuff. It needs to be done gently for some reason. Same with shaking it when you want to inject. Roll it instead.  

15 Dec 2004 23:25
regino007
I applaud you for doing your research bro.Alot of bros get in with both feet and before they know it they are in over their heads.Good luck and keep us updated.  

16 Dec 2004 19:35
Whiteboyz79
:thumbs: Ok guys just got done with my first shot!! Had an experienced friend come over and do it. No blood, no oil leaks, nothing. Good to go the way it looks right now. Now, I only got 1" pins but I'm pretty sure it went IM. The only problem I might be faced with right now is the fact that I ordered 8 weeks of HCG but only got 5 weeks worth. How bad is that going to affect me? I've got about 3-4 weeks worth of Nolva though so that's not a worry. I want to thank all of you guys who posted with responses over the last few weeks, your information has greatly educated me on the world of steroids!!  

22 Dec 2004 00:41
jcvaughn26
Well if you only have 5 weeks worth of HCG I would just wait until thel last 5 weeks. How much were you going to run it at anyway?  

22 Dec 2004 01:00
Whiteboyz79
well, I wanted to do 250iu 2x/week. Should I do more or try to thin it out and try to get a few more weeks out of the supply I have?  

22 Dec 2004 03:56
Whiteboyz79
to the top  

28 Dec 2004 04:38
shortz
[QUOTE=Whiteboyz79]well, I wanted to do 250iu 2x/week. Should I do more or try to thin it out and try to get a few more weeks out of the supply I have?[/QUOTE]

250iu is the minimum you should be injecting each time and 500iu should be the max. You probably should have just gotten more. The stuff is pretty cheap.  

28 Dec 2004 04:47
Whiteboyz79
well, if my amps are 1000iu's each and I have 5 of them I could just use 250 2x a week and make it last a few weeks longer right, as long as I preload my pins?  

30 Dec 2004 02:15
jcvaughn26
ya you can do that.  

30 Dec 2004 03:23
Whiteboyz79
thanks man, what's the longest I can store keep my preloads? Also, I've looked all over the net and can't find a standard conversion from iu's to mL/cc's? Any help with that? If I'm going to do 250iu's 2x/week, I just want to know how much that is in mL.  

01 Jan 2005 01:01
Whiteboyz79
to the top  

04 Jan 2005 03:59
jcvaughn26
I don't remember how long after you add the BW to it that you can store it I believe it is a month or 2 keep it refrigerated though. The reason you can't find a convertion from IU's to ml is because IU's are different of each chemical; it's not a set unit for everything. You should be using slin pinz for HCG not a 3ml pin if that's why you are looking.

It's pretty easy math.... if you have 5000iu amp and you make it 1ml normal if you just ad the water in the amp that's what it is. Then you have 500iu per .1ml. So.... say you have a 1ml slin pin which goes up to 100 on the mesurement.... it would be 10 on the pin to get 500ius of HCG. If you need help figuring it out tell me what you are making 1500 in 1ml or whatever you are doing.  

04 Jan 2005 04:33
Whiteboyz79
well, I've got 1000ui amps and I was just going to preload my regular pins since you guys said it didn't make that much difference if I went IM or subq. So basically what you're saying is if I fill up 1mL with HCG then I basically have 100iu per .1mL. I think I get it now. Is there any way I can just go 500iu's one time per week so I don't have to stick myself more than once a week? Or should I just go out and buy the slin pins and go 250iu's twice a week?  

05 Jan 2005 04:39
jcvaughn26
Get slin pinz you'll be very inaccurate with how much you are actually get per shot if you don't because it will stay in the hub of a normal pin. 2 pokes with a slin pin is nothing you won't even care when you do it.  

05 Jan 2005 06:44
Storm
HCG should beused up in 5 days of mixing it..I find the best way to use it is no more the 500iu a day for 2 weeks every 2-3months if you are on a never ending cycle with high dose ranges then low dose ranges...If you just doing a normal cycle do the HCG 2 week safter your last long acting ester shot for 2 weeks as I stated earlier then follow with clomid for 3 weeks your should be regular after that double wammy...  

05 Jan 2005 20:36
jcvaughn26
5 days?? is that if you don't refrigerate it? I think he planned on running it through out 2x a week. Swales posted before on SBI about running it that way, he's a HR doc. I am trying it that way too it's working well. There is a lot of different takes on how to run HCG, if you are going to run it at the end of the cycle I recommend the last week you are injecting your long acting esters. HCG stimulates the leydig cell so even though it helps with testicular atrophy it still shuts you down.

Not trying to start an argument here storm just what I have heard, if I am wrong feel free to set me straight HCG is a contravertial subject because there are so many opinions on it.

*Edit* I am retracting my statement about the waiting 2 wks part I had a brain fart, halflife of cycpionate is around 18 days or so don't know it exactly right off the top of my head but I agree now.  

05 Jan 2005 22:52
Whiteboyz79
Ok as long as I have two of you guys with slightly different opinions let me ask you this: I basically have four amps (1000iu's each) of HCG, I originally wanted to go the 250 iu/2x a week route starting on my fourth week of the cycle until my last shot. Would I be safe just starting on say my sixth or seventh week of the cycle and continuing until the end of the cycle? I know I can't start the PCT with Nolva/Clomid until I'm done with the HCG so in both of your opinions when should I start/stop. Thanks guys.  

06 Jan 2005 04:08
jcvaughn26
If I was going to wait that long I would just do 500ius ED for the last ten days of my cycle.  

06 Jan 2005 08:31
Whiteboyz79
Ok, did my first shot of HCG yesterday. Mixed it with the cyp. Each amp contains 5000iu's, so I did like you said JC and filled up the pin and then figured out that each tenth of a milliliter is equal to 500iu's. Now this is the beginning of my 4th week of my cycle and I just used 500iu's yesterday. I'm not sure if I want to do the 250iu/2x week plan. How much of a difference will it make if I only go once a week as opposed to 2x? Also, I've got about four weeks worth of Nolva, do you recommend starting it now in low doses or waiting until the last few weeks of the cycle/first few weeks of PCT? I'm not experiencing any abnormal symptoms or anything that's why I am curious. Thanks for the help!!  

12 Jan 2005 20:51
Storm
Once mixed in the fridge HCG is good for 5 days...I guess you could extend it longer by using bac water but the amp of water you mix it with is isotonic sodium chloride so pretty much 5 days is the max for it being good as far as I know..Been that way for as long as I remember so about 14 years...  

12 Jan 2005 22:37
Whiteboyz79
thanks I'm glad you told me it was only 5 days. I was going to keep it for about a week and a half until I had used it all. I got it in the fridge right now so I guess I should go out and buy some slin pins and use another 250iu's before it goes bad. But, will only taking 500iu's/1x a week really be that much less beneficial than taking 250/2x a week?  

12 Jan 2005 23:28
Storm
IMO it is better to do samml amounts ie 250-500iu max everday for 2 weeks..Big doses don't really help out and just offer you more sides..Better to do samll amounts over 2 weeks that will do more and the sides are min..Hell Duchaine advised to do 50 iu every few hours to have it work best but who has the tiem for that shit??  

13 Jan 2005 01:56
jcvaughn26
Well Storm I still am going to disagree on the 5 days on LOI we were discussing it and think it's around 28 days from all the replies. Not trying to argue but if you have any references to that I'd like to see them so I can make adjustments myself. I am using 500ius 2x a week and it's been a month and it's been keeping my boys in shape not going to test it's shelflife any longer last 500ius is gone tomorrow. I started week 2 because they were already shrinking that why I decided to start it then.

I do agree with small amounts over a couple weeks as you said. Over 1000ius a day you are risking damaging the leydig cell perminently. I'm curious now I need to research alot more on the subject, always love learning more info.  

13 Jan 2005 02:51
Storm
I have been looking around myself and can't find a good answer to 5 days or 30days..Bro there is no agruing here just discussion..I looked ina few of my boos and they don't say at all how long it is good for..They nalso say to take one big shot so in there eyes there was no need for keeping it good since you would be taking the full dose of the amp..If you have any refs to shelf life after mixed would like to see it..Not from a board from or a vet need it to be from a study or lab test..  

13 Jan 2005 03:03
jcvaughn26
Ya I am looking for an actual study, but can't find much. If I find something I'll post it.  

13 Jan 2005 03:57
Whiteboyz79
Ok guys what I gather from both of you is that I should definitely be using 2x a week. With that said, where are you shooting the hcg and I should be able to get the slin pins at a regular pharmacy just like my othe pins right?  

14 Jan 2005 21:18
jcvaughn26
Should be able to get some if you can get normal pins there. I get mine all online. You can do it sub-q on your stomach in a little fat, or where ever you are comfortable with shooting really. Stomach doesn't hurt at all.  

15 Jan 2005 01:17
regino007
[QUOTE=Storm]I have been looking around myself and can't find a good answer to 5 days or 30days..Bro there is no agruing here just discussion..I looked ina few of my boos and they don't say at all how long it is good for..They nalso say to take one big shot so in there eyes there was no need for keeping it good since you would be taking the full dose of the amp..If you have any refs to shelf life after mixed would like to see it..Not from a board from or a vet need it to be from a study or lab test..[/QUOTE]
Storm,were you dipping in the "Bubbly" when you posted this? :laughing:  

15 Jan 2005 02:05
Whiteboyz79
Ok guys, went and got my slin pins. They're 29g 1/2". The units on the side are oblivious to me and have no indication of what they should be. They begin at 5 and rise in incriments of 5 all the way to 30. Any help on how to convert these into mg/iu for my HCG would be very helpful. I've already figured that .1mL = 500iu HCG, can anyone take me from there? :confused:

Oh and I've had the spare HCG in the fridge for the last week but I'm still going to use it up, I haven't heard any negative feedback on storing it longer than five days.  

18 Jan 2005 18:15
Whiteboyz79
to the top....  

20 Jan 2005 06:52
gymphreak
well...if im thinking correctly about pregnyls, you diluted 5000iu/1CC....thus, a slin pin is one CC when u fill it to the top if im not mistaken...Im looking at my slin pins right now, and they go up to 100...since 5000/10 is 500, each numbered increment is 500iu...

id advise you to make your life simpler, and get normal slin pins....because ive never seen a slin pin that ends at .30ml...  

20 Jan 2005 07:18
Whiteboyz79
I think I'm just going to measure what I have left in the 3cc pin and transfer it to the slin pin and convert it that way.  

20 Jan 2005 19:01
jcvaughn26
[QUOTE=gymphreak]well...if im thinking correctly about pregnyls, you diluted 5000iu/1CC....thus, a slin pin is one CC when u fill it to the top if im not mistaken...Im looking at my slin pins right now, and they go up to 100...since 5000/10 is 500, each numbered increment is 500iu...

id advise you to make your life simpler, and get normal slin pins....because ive never seen a slin pin that ends at .30ml...[/QUOTE]


gearbox sells 1/2ml slin pinz I believe, but slin IU's should be constant no matter what pin IU's vary for chemicals but slin pins are only made for one chemical if you did start out with 5000iu amps then 10 would still be the correct measurement if I'm not mistaken

**Edit I reworded that it sounded jumbled  

20 Jan 2005 19:56

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